Curse

Amy Awien · Jun 20, 2010, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awex Mafyews

... skills that increase they're threat level ... which make all the enemies attack them instead of the healers ...

Sounds like GW's mob-AI is a bit more sophisticated then that of WoW and tactically a bit more demanding for the player. It's a lot more fun to think and plan a little bit rather then pressing the right buttons.

zwei2stein · Jun 20, 2010, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

...

I know the warrior is not a tank, but I wanted it to make it a tank, because mindlessly doing Enduring Axe/Scythe attack spammer is inferior to caster damage. especially in Hard Mode your auto attacks deal little to no damage.

...

There are few things certain in GW but one of them is that damage from physicals outperforms nuking casters.

It can *feel* low, but it certainly is not.

About SY: AI noticing you have lowest armor of your team -> AI wanting to hug you -> argo magnet, weeeee!

Picuso · Jun 20, 2010, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

this is the generic idea:
*Click*

Make a monk cast Protective Spirit and/or Shield of Absorption/Spirit bond on you.

Corner Block your enemies. Use Hundred-Blades + Whirlwind attack. Watch them explode with your damage + RoJs.

BONUS: Make a Necro hero cast Mark Of Pain on one of the balled enemies before you use WW

EDIT: Earth Shaker + Crude Swing + Whirlwind attack is good for that too.

Yuna Matsumarui · Jun 20, 2010, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

There are few things certain in GW but one of them is that damage from physicals outperforms nuking casters.

It can *feel* low, but it certainly is not.

About SY: AI noticing you have lowest armor of your team -> AI wanting to hug you -> argo magnet, weeeee!

it IS low. even in UW [NM] my 100b which is supposed to deal 20 damage / hit deals only 8.

wth?

on the other hand there is my mesmer dealing 120+ AoE damage with clumsiness, wandering eye and whatnot.

Quote:

Picuso

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui View Post
this is the generic idea:
*Click*

Make a monk cast Protective Spirit and/or Shield of Absorption/Spirit bond on you.

Corner Block your enemies. Use Hundred-Blades + Whirlwind attack. Watch them explode with your damage + RoJs.

BONUS: Make a Necro hero cast Mark Of Pain on one of the balled enemies before you use WW

EDIT: Earth Shaker + Crude Swing + Whirlwind attack is good for that too.

let's say avarage mob = 4-8 enemies.

I'll take 8 to prove my point.

as I just said, damage get's reduced from 100b back to 8, this varies ofcourse due to the armor rating from an enemy so I'll up it a little bit to 10.

that's a 50% dmg reduction..

so there's 8 enemies nicely balled (almost impossible since I'm gonna get spell'd real bad without SF, and putting SB on a hero removes 1 RoJ)

I hit FGJ -> To the Limit -> Whirlwind Attack.

let's say thanks to the +dmg of whirlwind I deal 30 dmg to each foe.
+10x8, that's 110 damage..

WOW! that's real much.

now, throw in a MoP and I'll get 8x 30 = 240 additional damage, but how's that possible with 3x RoJ..

even then, I'd rather take Wandering Eye for conditional, fast recharging damage.

btw, prot spirit + sb + soA lasts a total of 10 seconds max, after that you get raped by anything in HM.

if a hero casts spells on you they break aggro and go after the hero..

besides, cornerblocking isn't always an option, and a stunning 8 seconds to make a ball of enemy casters / rangers + warriors is not much. not even mentioning the time it takes your heroes to get to you (since otherwise they start casting shit on you if you're not far away)

well anyways, yo Illustrate my idea is this video:

pretty easy, since those foes didn't really use spells which could inflict harm, and were all melee based so balling them was easypeasylemonsqueezy.

please do note that all damage came from the monks, as I had no attribute spec'd into strength or any weapon, just tactics 14 and shadow arts 12..

Mustache Mayhem · Jun 20, 2010, 08:01 PM // 20:01

that's tank n spank.. I used to do that to plow through to fendi- using assassin though

works great on undead in hm.. 100b isn't bad when you add to the damage on the warrior- use I am the strongest + str signet and throw on smite like honor, a rit splinter and a attack speed boost it becomes the lawnmower.. numbers will fly everywhere on that ball

if your not using zealous you could even throw a ele conjure xx on top of that

I see your point about mop though.. I don't use it myself but you have to factor in scatter when your doing that much damage.. there's kind of a sweet spot where the mobs get caught in the headlights- too much and they scatter

3x roj is pretty good but it still will scatter a hm mob that's not undead.. undead ball just blows up though it's perfect

Picuso · Jun 20, 2010, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

btw, prot spirit + sb + soA lasts a total of 10 seconds max, after that you get raped by anything in HM.

I said PS + (SB OR SoA). There's no need to have all of them. Prot. Spirit + SB is enough to survive while you ball them. And...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

if a hero casts spells on you they break aggro and go after the hero..

...you cast them before you aggro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

besides, cornerblocking isn't always an option, and a stunning 8 seconds to make a ball of enemy casters / rangers + warriors is not much.

Then, if you can't cornerblock, don't try to tank. Your party will have 7 members (as you will be totally useless).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEtSBRBBcmA This is an exemple of what Mark Of Pain can do (I know. It's some kind of "optimal conditions". But that warrior was doing >10k damage).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem

I see your point about mop though.. I don't use it myself but you have to factor in scatter when your doing that much damage.. there's kind of a sweet spot where the mobs get caught in the headlights- too much and they scatter

Even if they scatter, a single WW+MoP with 100B activated will be enough damage to kill some of them. Survivors will be easy to handle.

EDIT: Just watch any Warrior video in a FoW SC. MoP desintegrates every single mob. With just a WW attack. And they can't scatter because they're dead...
EDIT2: I'm sure that if you make a psynergic build with your heroes (instead of 3 RoJs, WW+100B+MoP+Splinter), that "8-enemies-mob" will die before your first RoJ starts damaging them.

Awex Mafyews · Jun 20, 2010, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Sounds like GW's mob-AI is a bit more sophisticated then that of WoW and tactically a bit more demanding for the player. It's a lot more fun to think and plan a little bit rather then pressing the right buttons.

Well their AI is rather the same IMHO, tactically yes it may be more demanding but that's a whole other point. You might not of caught my drift but I was stipulating that this game mechanic in wow made tanks.....tanks, in my opinion this was fun, a lot more fun than the physicals in GW running around like headless chickens dealing damage but generally not taking that much in return. Therefore I wouldn't mind being able to properly tank as a warrior without having to use some tactic involving exploits of the games but thats just me.

Amy Awien · Jun 21, 2010, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awex Mafyews

Well their AI is rather the same IMHO,

Wow's mob-AI is programmed to eat carrots, to promote a particular type of play while in GW the AI makes dicisions that increase their odds on beating the players and the tank (and his team) will have to be more resourceful to bait the mob-AI into attacking their tanks.

Cornerblocking is one of GW's carrots, but it's on the battlefield, you have to look for it and make use of the terrain rather then just mindlessly activating your skills.

Quote:

Therefore I wouldn't mind being able to properly tank as a warrior without having to use some tactic involving exploits of the games but thats just me.

There is no exploit in understanding the mob-AI and adapting your tactics to win from it. Tactics like cornerblocking were designed into the game, you may call that expoiting and prefer the restrictive combat of other MMORPG's, but that is not how GW was conceived, remember skill over time? GW's tanking requires player skill, not a button-skill you earn and improve by adding levels to your character.

majoho · Jun 21, 2010, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Traditional MMO tanking based on hate/threat is one of the lamest things ever invented.

I'm not saying that the GW way is better but the notion that you can "tank" some über boss in a raid is an insult to his intelligence.

4thVariety · Jun 21, 2010, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Tanking is just a damage prevention strategy, you have some of them in GW.

(1) Get a healer, although this will only work in NM
(2) Bring undead minions, lot's of them, which does not work some places with heavy AoE or no corpses.
(3) Spam "Save Yourselves!" and trust in the power of +100, which also does not work everywhere due to anti-shout skills. There used to be bonds, but anti-enchantment is everywhere these days, so that is no longer an option.
(4) Have one person try and tank all of it. At which point you require a spellbreaker. Stacking armor only gets you so far and spell-damage is the worst. Completely blocking it out by using a spellbreaker is the only option really.

(5) You can bring a Panic Mesmer, although that is not enough on its own, but helps sealing the deal on any of the other approaches.

Yuna Matsumarui · Jun 21, 2010, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picuso

I said PS + (SB OR SoA). There's no need to have all of them. Prot. Spirit + SB is enough to survive while you ball them. And...

...you cast them before you aggro.

WHICH leaves you with a maximum of 10 attacks to tank (Spirit Bond) and after that, another 10 hits from prot spirit.. if you add SoA to that you'll last longer against larger mobs, but you'll still get gangraped after SoA has worn out.

Then, if you can't cornerblock, don't try to tank. Your party will have 7 members (as you will be totally useless).
who said I can't cornerblock? I just said that sometimes there is no corner available to block with, or even a wall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEtSBRBBcmA This is an exemple of what Mark Of Pain can do (I know. It's some kind of "optimal conditions". But that warrior was doing >10k damage).
that warrior was doing 10k dmg against weak foes (sins) and was against a mob of 35 enemies..

now, 35x 34x1.25 = 1487 damage + 35x 12 = 1907 AoE damage.. ofcourse you get 1x about 40 dmg in addition to that thanks to whirlwind attack.

Even if they scatter, a single WW+MoP with 100B activated will be enough damage to kill some of them. Survivors will be easy to handle.
let's see, avarage 8foes mob.
let's assume they're 60 AR targets, just like the sins in the video.. (+hm bonus ofc.)

8x 34 (MoP) = 272, I'm not bringing BuH for regular PvE, since party members are >50% always.. with BUH it would be 340.
8x 12 = 96 AoE damage. (100b)
splinter weapon is pretty hard to calculate since it only hits 3 foes at once, but just plain AoE damage would be
(14 channeling) 5x47x3 = 705. to calculate avarage AoE damage that would make 705 : 8 = 88 damage / foe.

so this entire setup, requiring a W/N 100b, and a Rt with 14 channeling & splinter weapon would deal a stunning amount of 88+96+340 = 524 AoE damage.. I'm not sure if the splinter weapon would trigger MoP, but yeah..

EDIT: Just watch any Warrior video in a FoW SC. MoP desintegrates every single mob. With just a WW attack. And they can't scatter because they're dead...
FoWsc has 2x 100b, and 2x Splinter Weapon..
EDIT2: I'm sure that if you make a psynergic build with your heroes (instead of 3 RoJs, WW+100B+MoP+Splinter), that "8-enemies-mob" will die before your first RoJ starts damaging them.

to be honest, as I've shown with the calculations, this isn't the case. 524 damage isn't enough to kill a mob, as well as being heavily reliant on 1 hex.

after this 500 damage spike, the mob is predestined to scatter, after which your whole damage idea is gone..

however, I will not deny that a 500 damage battle opener is bad.. I was thinking about 100% kill though.

Quote:

4thVariety said:
Tanking is just a damage prevention strategy, you have some of them in GW.

(1) Get a healer, although this will only work in NM
(2) Bring undead minions, lot's of them, which does not work some places with heavy AoE or no corpses.
(3) Spam "Save Yourselves!" and trust in the power of +100, which also does not work everywhere due to anti-shout skills. There used to be bonds, but anti-enchantment is everywhere these days, so that is no longer an option.
(4) Have one person try and tank all of it. At which point you require a spellbreaker. Stacking armor only gets you so far and spell-damage is the worst. Completely blocking it out by using a spellbreaker is the only option really.

(5) You can bring a Panic Mesmer, although that is not enough on its own, but helps sealing the deal on any of the other approaches.

this wasn't the point of the thread, I've played nearly every team build available with my heroes, and this was just something I liked to try out.. ofcourse is discord / sabway with a shitload of minions better, and dual SY! is godmode, even to stuff like 5x meteor shower, but it's not rly fun in my opinion.

Spellbreaker wouldn't work, well it would, but it would remove 1 RoJ.. besides that it only leaves you X seconds to ball after which you get raped, and that monk would be running 14 or so divine favor.. my heroes commonly run smite / prot or heal/prot hybrids which leave about 8-10 in Divine Favor.
this divine favor would give me 11-13 (x1.2 = 13,2 - 15,6 seconds to ball. as well as running away from my party to avoid them casting stuff on me, or aggro'ing the mob by accident.

Quote:

majoho said:
Traditional MMO tanking based on hate/threat is one of the lamest things ever invented.

I'm not saying that the GW way is better but the notion that you can "tank" some über boss in a raid is an insult to his intelligence.
well I'm not sure how things work in WoW since I never played it, but I do remember me trying to kill a boss in aion which had the tendency to change target every 5 seconds or so, now matter how many 'taunts' the tanks gave it.

so this is more a AI problem than a player problem imo.

Picuso · Jun 21, 2010, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

let's see, avarage 8foes mob.
let's assume they're 60 AR targets, just like the sins in the video.. (+hm bonus ofc.)

8x 34 (MoP) = 272, I'm not bringing BuH for regular PvE, since party members are >50% always.. with BUH it would be 340.
8x 12 = 96 AoE damage. (100b)
splinter weapon is pretty hard to calculate since it only hits 3 foes at once, but just plain AoE damage would be
(14 channeling) 5x47x3 = 705. to calculate avarage AoE damage that would make 705 : 8 = 88 damage / foe.

so this entire setup, requiring a W/N 100b, and a Rt with 14 channeling & splinter weapon would deal a stunning amount of 88+96+340 = 524 AoE damage.. I'm not sure if the splinter weapon would trigger MoP, but yeah..

Quote:

This skill does armor-ignoring physical damage, benefiting from Winnowing and triggering Mark of Pain and Barbs, but it does not trigger weapon modifications such as Vampiric, Zealous, or Furious since the wielder is not actually hitting the adjacent foes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Splinter_Weapon

7x34x8 (MoP triggering once for every trigger of 100B, but the hexed target is unnaffected by MoP damage) + 8x12x8 (100B. It will trigger once per every single enemy hit -or not- by WW attack) + 5x47x3 + 5x34 (Splinter triggering MoP) = 3547 Total AoE Damage (average 443.375 Damage/foe).

3x RoJ will need 3547/(48x3 @16 Smith.)= 24.63 seconds (maybe 21-23 if you add burning damage) to do the same damage as the MoP-100B-Splinter combo. And enemies will scatter as soon as your first RoJ tick damages them (but with the M100BS combo, they will scatter AFTER all that damage).

You don't have to be W/N. You're warrior and take a Necro and a Ritualist hero with you. (With more useful skills).

And MoP and Splinter weapon damage are armor-ignoring.

Quote:

WHICH leaves you with a maximum of 10 attacks to tank (Spirit Bond) and after that, another 10 hits from prot spirit.. if you add SoA to that you'll last longer against larger mobs, but you'll still get gangraped after SoA has worn out.

While you are aggroing them, any of your monks can cast again SB. Usually, a single PS+SB (or PS+2SB) are enough to corner block any enemy. And if you're cornerblocking correctly, they won't try to attack your monk if any comes to protect you.

Quote:

who said I can't cornerblock? I just said that sometimes there is no corner available to block with, or even a wall.

I wasn't saying you can't. I was saying that if there is no corner or wall avaliable, there's no need to play with a "completely defensive" build.

LAST EDIT: We should ignore scatter if we're assuming cornerblocking, because every single enemy trying to run will run to his left, so they wouldn't be able to run because of Wall+Warrior block.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jun 21, 2010, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

Spellbreaker wouldn't work, well it would, but it would remove 1 RoJ

I believe, from his consistent use of spellbreaker as an improper noun and the context in which he used it, that 4thVariety was referring to skills with spellbreaking effects in general - Shadow Form, for example.

YunSooJin · Jun 22, 2010, 08:58 AM // 08:58

what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO is this still 2005?

Yuna Matsumarui · Jun 22, 2010, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO is this still 2005?

thank you so much for that comment.

Quote:

3x RoJ will need 3547/(48x3 @16 Smith.)= 24.63 seconds (maybe 21-23 if you add burning damage) to do the same damage as the MoP-100B-Splinter combo. And enemies will scatter as soon as your first RoJ tick damages them (but with the M100BS combo, they will scatter AFTER all that damage).

as can be seen in : THIS
they don't scatter after the first tick, though I'll give you the fact that enemies will scatter from RoJ.
I'm not really sure where u get your x7 from in your calculations, cause if you're referring to the additional damage caused by Splinter which triggers MoP the calculations should be different.

34x 8 (WWA) = 272
5x3 = 15 hits from Splinter, dealing 705 damage.

splinter will never trigger MoP if your targetting the MoP'd target, so you have to target something else.

this means that that foe cannot be hit by splinter, leaving the MoP'd target with a 1/7 chance that he gets a hit of splinter.
1/7 *15 = 2.14.
so an additional 2.14 * 34 = 72 MoP damage, statistically..
splinter damage = 47x 15 = 705, 705 / 8 = 88 damage / foe (not really, as the targeted foe will never be hit by splinter, but for the easiness of the equation.

so yeah, I think you're right about splinterMoP being better than triple RoJ @ 15, or even 16 Smiting Prayers..

as well as triple RoJ not being available every 5 seconds like Splinter Weapon is..

therefore, I tip my hat to you, good sir, for showing me the light. (and effectively wasting 30k I put into full smite gear for my heroes :P )

I like maths..

so WW MoP Splinter damage would give a formula of (@13 swordsmanship, 12 curses and 14 channeling)

total damage = F x 20x AR + Foes x 34 + 47x3xF* +40xF
F= Foes
AR = Armor Rating
F*=foes, maximum 5

Total Damage : F = damage per foe.

Quote:

3x RoJ will need 3547/(48x3 @16 Smith.)= 24.63 seconds (maybe 21-23 if you add burning damage) to do the same damage as the MoP-100B-Splinter combo. And enemies will scatter as soon as your first RoJ tick damages them (but with the M100BS combo, they will scatter AFTER all that damage).

there is a flaw in this maths, because you're taking the total damage (3547) as individual Damage.

if you take a mob of 8, like you did with your 100bMoPsplinterbomb, then it would be
48x3x8 (damage per second, amount of RoJ, foes) = 1152 damage per second

3547 / 1152 = 3,0789 seconds of RoJ to dish out thesame amount of AoE damage.

as well as being less conditional (hex, splinter, block) but being spread out out over 3 seconds, giving HM healers more time to spam pretty powerful heals.

I don't think mobs scatter after 3 seconds already, or at least that didn't happen in my video.

so RoJ formula = 45, (15 smiting)
3 RoJ
45x3 = 135
total damage = 135xFxS
F= foe
S = seconds, maximum 5.

now, if you'd solve for S, that'd give you (assuming AR = assassin, making 20 from 100b 12, otherwise I'll be calculating too much sh*t for no reason since no1 is gonna read this)

135xFxS =F x 20x AR + Foes x 34 + 47x3xF* +40xF
135FS = 12F + 34F +141F +40F
135FS = 237F divide by F
135S = 237 divide by 135
S = 1.75555555555.....6

which is odd, since I just calculated RoJ deals thesame damage @ 3 seconds, but I guess that's because your maths were flawed.

let's see if I'm correct.

45x3x1.75555555556x8 = 1896
MoPsplinterbomb

was 237F, 237x 8 = 1896.

so yeah :P

I'm not really sure if my maths are complete, and/or correct, so please help me with this if I'm making any mistakes.

thank you all for reply'ing so far, I appreciate it, please comment more if you know maths :P

Picuso · Jun 22, 2010, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

tI'm not really sure where u get your x7 from in your calculations, cause if you're referring to the additional damage caused by Splinter which triggers MoP the calculations should be different.

My "7x" at the start of the "formula" is because MoP does not damage the hexed target.

So:
34 (MoP's Damage per trigger) x 8 (times MoP will trigger if you use 100B+WW attack vs 8 foes) x 7 (foes damaged by MoP's damage)

Whirlwind Attack = Normal attack with extra damage -> Tab -> rinse and repeat until you've hit every single enemy around you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

splinter will never trigger MoP if your targetting the MoP'd target, so you have to target something else.

I think Splinter Weapon hits the closest enemies from your target. So if you use WW attack, targetting the MoPed foe, it's easy to get extra MoP hits

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

total damage = F x 20x AR + Foes x 34 + 47x3xF* +40xF
F= Foes
AR = Armor Rating
F*=foes, maximum 5

Total Damage : F = damage per foe.

That's not correct (as I said before, MoP would cause F*34*(F-1) damage, because 100B would hit the MoPed target F times, and the hexed foe can't be damaged by MoP's damage)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

there is a flaw in this maths, because you're taking the total damage (3547) as individual Damage.

if you take a mob of 8, like you did with your 100bMoPsplinterbomb, then it would be
48x3x8 (damage per second, amount of RoJ, foes) = 1152 damage per second

3547 / 1152 = 3,0789 seconds of RoJ to dish out thesame amount of AoE damage.

Oops. Yes, I was wrong with RoJ's damage. My bad >_<

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui

135xFxS =F x 20x AR + Foes x 34 + 47x3xF* +40xF
135FS = 12F + 34F +141F +40F
135FS = 237F divide by F
135S = 237 divide by 135
S = 1.75555555555.....6

I don't know why, but I think that "formula" is wrong. You have to multiply "Foesx34" by (Foes-1), and I don't understand why F*=F... Try to solve it fixing that, and just ignore Splinter triggering MoP. Let's see if you can do it (I don't know why, but I can't now xD).

Yuna Matsumarui · Jun 23, 2010, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picuso

My "7x" at the start of the "formula" is because MoP does not damage the hexed target.

So:
34 (MoP's Damage per trigger) x 8 (times MoP will trigger if you use 100B+WW attack vs 8 foes) x 7 (foes damaged by MoP's damage)

Whirlwind Attack = Normal attack with extra damage -> Tab -> rinse and repeat until you've hit every single enemy around you.

I think Splinter Weapon hits the closest enemies from your target. So if you use WW attack, targetting the MoPed foe, it's easy to get extra MoP hits

That's not correct (as I said before, MoP would cause F*34*(F-1) damage, because 100B would hit the MoPed target F times, and the hexed foe can't be damaged by MoP's damage)

Oops. Yes, I was wrong with RoJ's damage. My bad >_<

I don't know why, but I think that "formula" is wrong. You have to multiply "Foesx34" by (Foes-1), and I don't understand why F*=F... Try to solve it fixing that, and just ignore Splinter triggering MoP. Let's see if you can do it (I don't know why, but I can't now xD).

lol, looks like we both made mistakes.. on the way home I did remeber that in the formula I put F* as F, but that's wrong, since F* only goes up to 5, while F is infinite.

the 7x MoP is a mistake I made as well, since you were calculating the TOTAL damage, while I took the amount of MoP triggers x MoP damage, it should've been MoP trigger x MoP dmg x foes, because otherwise your damage will be the avarage dmg per foe, instead of the total damage, like I did with RoJ.

let's see.. (lol although I like maths in this kind of way, I'm still not that good at it

)

M= Total MoPsplinterbomb damage
R= Total triple RoJ damage

we have to solve for the S of seconds in the RoJ formula to know when R=M

so R would be
(i'm assuming you can keep the foes in the AoE damage, calculating scatter would be difficult, as you scatter circumstances vary each time.)
45x3xS+14xS (damage from 3 RoJ x seconds + burning x seconds)

which would give us
135S+14S = 149S
to calculate total damage it would be
R=149SxF

now, the MoP bomb is more difficult to calculate, because the damage dealt varies on the amount of foes you're fighting.

but anyways, MoP @ 12 curses I'm assuming, dealing 34 damage each trigger.

(12 curses instead of 14 because that way you can throw it on any of your hybrid heroes)

so MoP dmg would be
34xF (damage x triggers from 100b) x F(each foe gets hit by it, assuming perfect ball, just like with RoJ)-1 (the hexed target doesn't get hit)

without the (..)

MoP damage = (34xF)(F-1)
now, 100b damage would be @ 14 (wth, if you're running 100b ur going full out or what? :P)
14 = 24 AoE adjacent damage each swing of your blade.
so that damage would be
24xFxFxAR
(24 damage to your foe for each foe you hit x Foes you're actually hitting x armor rating)

100b=24xARxF^2
now the +dmg of WWA is +13..20
let's assume perfect title here
and standard sword damage is 15-22
Armor Rating matters alot here, since that decreases the sword damage, (not that this damage really matters, but if you want a clean calculation)
mmhm, so in order to calculate the damage I think you'd have to calculate each amount of damage (first 15, through the formula, then 16 through the formula etc. then divide by 7)

so the WWA damage would be
20+(15xAR)xF +
20+(16xAR)xF +
20+(17xAR)xF +
20+(18xAR)xF +
20+(19xAR)xF +
20+(20xAR)xF +
20x(21xAR)xF +
20x(22xAR)xF
-------------- :
21,14 avarage sword damage

so WWA dmg would be
20+(21,14xAR)xF

now for the more difficult part, Splinter Weapon

splinter weapon @ 14 channeling would give 47 dmg each trigger
47xF*x3
that's 705 @ max potentional, 5 foes. F*<6
but, Splinter dmg also gives AoE damage which triggers MoP, so (you're right, it doesn't matter which one you hit, the damage that comes from the hit target will always ALSO hit the MoP'd target,
however the damage only affects three foes.

so that gives you 5x3 = foes hit by Splinter
1 foe out of F with MoP gets a trigger gives you
additional MoP = 15x(1:F)
with additional MoPdmg being 15x(1:F)x34xF

lol, so if we put all of that together, then that would give
15x(1:F)x34F + 47xF*x3 + 20+(21,14xAR)xF + 24xARxF^2 + (34xF)(F-1)

AdditionalMoP + SW + WWA + 100b + MoP dmg

let's reduce this to a more simple formula..

darn, this is hard, the F* is fcking it up.. you can't throw it on the pile of F's because that'd give you a wrong formula since it can't trigger more than 5 times. as well as the 47xF*x 3 should actually be 47xF*xF** with F** being maximum of 3.

well, let's get on with this.

Quote:

15x(1:F)x34F + 47xF*x3 + 20+(21,14xAR)xF + 24xARxF^2 + (34xF)(F-1)

Quote:

15x(1:F)x34F + 47xF*x3 + 20+(21,14xAR)xF + 24xARxF^2 + 34F-34+F^2-F

Quote:

510 + 47xF*x3 + 20+(21,14xAR)xF + 24xARxF^2 + 34F-34+F^2-F
I simplified 15x(1:F)x34F here, which gives 510 as an answer, for each X value. this is pretty weird, but mathematically correct since you do
15x34 x 1 :F x F
which gives 15x34 = 510.
not sure if I made the formula correct though

Quote:

510 + 47xF*x3 + 20F +(21,14xAR)xF + 24xARxF^2 + 34F-34+F^2-F

damn, this is hard :/ why am I even doing this? I should be just playing GW right now :P

Quote:

510-34 + 47xF*x3 + 20F+34F-1F +(21,14xAR)xF+ 24xARxF^2 +F^2

Quote:

476 + 47xF*x3 + 53F + (21,14xAR)xF+ 24xARxF^2 +F^2

Quote:

476+53F + 47xF*x3 + 21,14ARF + 24ARF^2 +F^2

I don’t think maxima can be simplified into the formula.

This leaves us with
M = 476+53F + 47xF*xF** +21,14ARF + 24ARF^2 + F^2
While RoJ = R
R=149SxF
So if you’d want to solve for S here
You’d have
R=M
149SxF = 476+53F + 47xF*xF** +21,14ARF + 24ARF^2 + F^2

This can’t be done, or at least with my knowledge of maths.. you’d have to put numbers for AR to solve it, so let’s assume assassin foes 60 AR but which reduce dmg of a 22 100b to 12.
12:22 x 100 = 54.54% damage.
Btw, this tells us that they have
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_rating +35 armor. However, the AP from strength makes this false..
I won’t go into this, so I’ll just assume the warrior has 10 strength (more than enough if you’d ask me but w/e)

This changes the formula into (assuming there are 8 foes, as we said)
149Sx8 = 476+53(8)+ 47x5x3 +21,14x0.5454x8 + 24x0.5454x64 + 64

Which gives us
1192S = 2599.2953
1192S = 2599.2953 : 1192 =
2.180616883 ~ 2.181 ~ 2.2
so after 2.2 seconds tripple RoJ deals equal damage as the MoP Spike against assassin foes in hardmode.

pretty surprising outcome imo, I think I might have done something wrong along the line, though since no1 is ever gonna read this I guess it's not worth checking and rechecking.

fireflyry · Jun 23, 2010, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Hold up.

Need to break out my abacus for this one.

Yuna Matsumarui · Jun 23, 2010, 05:30 PM // 17:30

I already noticed there's a flaw in the calcultions.. the additional damage Splinter Triggers should be (I think) something along the lines of

you have 5 chances
the good thing you want to happen is that the MoP gets hit by a splinter
splinter has 5 uses

7/8 (you dont want the splinter using the MoP as a starter, because then he won't be hit by hit)
(7/8)^5 = the chance that all splinters trigger on something else

then, 3/7 that he MoP gets hit
(3/7)^5

so if you would want to calculate the odds of MoP getting struck by splinter 5 times out of 5

(7/8)^5 * (3/7)^5
I entered this in google

((7 / 8)^5) * ((3 / 7)^5)

which gives

= 0.00741577148

as a result.

I'm not sure (im pretty tired now) though there is a way in which you can rework the chances into plain damage (like there's 10x a chance that something in a mob will be hit for 10 damage, there's 8 foes

10x10 = 100 total damage, 100:8 = 12.5 avarage damage

though I'm gonna call it quits and go to bed

PuppyEater · Jun 24, 2010, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Ahh... RPG spreadsheets, we meet again...